Wondering how to build a stronger studio team, make staff training more meaningful or navigate paying employees for team retreats? In this episode of Your Studio Podcast, Chantelle and Michelle share practical studio leadership strategies, memorable lessons from their Hawaii team retreat and simple ways to create a connected, motivated team that takes ownership of your studio’s vision. Tune in to discover how meaningful team development can help you build a thriving studio with more confidence, collaboration and freedom.
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Transcript:
Chantelle Bruinsma (00:04):
Welcome to Your Studio Podcast, sharing strategies for studio owners. I’m Chantelle Bruinsma here with Michelle Hunter, and together we’re the CEOs of Studio Evolution, where for over a decade we’ve helped thousands of studio owners around the world from dance, music, acting, art, yoga, and Pilates studios transform their passion into thriving profitable businesses. So if you’re a studio owner, grab a cup of tea and settle in. You’re in exactly the right place. Hello, lovely ones. Chantelle Bruinsma here with Michelle Hunter, and welcome back to Your Studio Podcast. It’s so fun doing these. We love them.
Michelle Hunter (00:43):
It’s so fun. It’s so fun. And we were reading out Spotify comments the other day and we had one come in and they were asking us the question about team retreats. And for instance, if you are flying your team to Hawaii for a team retreat, you’re doing all that wonderful connection and bonding and team training together. What are the expectations and kind of guidelines you put in around paying your staff or not paying for all of the hours while they’re at the retreat?
Chantelle Bruinsma (01:13):
I mean, what a question. What a great question.
Michelle Hunter (01:16):
As soon as you said Hawaii, I was like –
Chantelle Bruinsma (01:17):
I’m just going to fly my whole team to Hawaii.
Michelle Hunter (01:19):
Oh man, it’s a good day.
Chantelle Bruinsma (01:22):
You know you’re at a good point as a studio owner when that’s your question you’re asking. So congratulations, James, you’re killing it. You’re doing a great job.
Michelle Hunter (01:30):
You’re doing a great job.
Chantelle Bruinsma (01:31):
Bravo. And look, we do get asked this question a lot. We do. How do I pay my team for training and for retreats? There is obviously a significant investment that requires and it’s very normal to feel like, for me to pay everyone for eight hours is a huge outlay for me financially. And so we do need to honor that that feeling is quite real. But the benefit of what you gain from doing training and having these retreats is just, my gosh, infinite, right Michelle? Infinite.
Michelle Hunter (02:07):
Oh, life changing. Moments that you look back on for the rest of your life, even we did that and it was 2019 we did ours, wasn’t it? November 2019.
Chantelle Bruinsma (02:17):
Yeah, that’s right.
Michelle Hunter (02:20):
We flew the whole team to Hawaii. And even from the first… We’re Australia, we’re not close to Hawaii. It’s not like a little skip over.
Chantelle Bruinsma (02:31):
Quick job.
Michelle Hunter (02:32):
It’s a huge exercise. And we know a lot of studio owners who are doing that from America, from the mainland, and also even here taking all their team to Bali and overseas for retreats.
Chantelle Bruinsma (02:44):
Or just the local beach town. It doesn’t even matter.
Michelle Hunter (02:47):
Local beach town, hiring an Airbnb. I think the same guidelines and the process that you’re following here and also the life-changing events that can happen here are still the same, still occur. And just that time with them. And I think the essence of it is you’re taking them, whether it’s down the road or overseas or on a plane or a ship or just in a car, you’re taking them into a different environment that is completely out of the norm, out of the studio, away from where you guys are making your coffee in the afternoon or doing your debrief. It’s somewhere that is totally new to the sensors.
Chantelle Bruinsma (03:21):
And it really allows you to set a whole new vision with the team completely invested and embodying it. You can’t do it in your studio. It’s very difficult to do high level visioning in a studio environment. You have to be elevated. You have to see new experiences, see new perspectives, see new horizons to be able to really shift the entire gear of the company into that new level. So after you, were you going to say something?
Michelle Hunter (03:52):
Oh, I was going to say one of the biggest visioning times we had with me, you and head of marketing was in a bush park just around the corner from my house. Do you remember? We got some pillows and some cushions and we were just in nature. But again, we couldn’t do it where we work every day. We couldn’t. We just had to be out in the senses. So again, just really integrating that point. James, you’re very lucky to be doing it in Hawaii, but again, if it’s just somewhere else, it can be done really well.
Chantelle Bruinsma (04:21):
Yeah. So before we get into, we can actually share some juicy things about how to run magnificent retreats like that, but before we get into that, let’s answer the core question around paying. So I’m going to address James’s point first, which is I’m flying them to Hawaii. I’m paying for all their accommodation. I’m paying for all their meals. I’m giving them phenomenal experiences. When we took the team to Hawaii, we had them on catamarans and we did bike riding. Oh no, that was when I discovered the team, the members did. But we were doing phenomenal experiences.
Michelle Hunter (04:54):
And we had dinner at some magical… Is that restaurant in a cove? I felt like I was in a movie. I don’t even know where it was, but –
Chantelle Bruinsma (05:01):
It kind of was a movie. Yeah, it was spectacular. So you’re giving them all these things. So in that case, what I did, James, was that we were really clear. Most of the team were actually full-timers. So if they’re full-timers, they’re still being paid their regular salary and therefore you are just not doing your work at home, you’re doing it in fricking Hawaii, you’re welcome. So that’s really clean. If you have contractors who are on a kind of hour rate, for taking them to Hawaii, you’re taking them to an international destination, I kind of feel it’s appropriate to offer that this experience will be not paid by the hour, this will form part of your training, but given we’re paying for flights, accommodation meals, experiences, that feels like a fair trade. If it is local though, it feels a little bit different.
Michelle Hunter (05:46):
Yeah. And I just want to put in when you’re putting that transparency in there, if it is longer travel, you need to be very clear on the time in lieu. We’ve had this when they’re like, “Oh, well, I traveled 10 hours and then I was warped and they arrived on a Sunday and then they didn’t want to work on the Monday.” Which is fair. You just have to really factor in wherever you’re traveling from and then what interacts with their normal lifestyle, but just have it in writing, have that very clearly articulated.
Chantelle Bruinsma (06:13):
And position it as a choice too, particularly if this is going to be an international trip. Some people might have young children or parents that they need to be caring for. If you’re taking them on a particular thing, that’s a very much above and beyond their normal expectations of the contract.
Michelle Hunter (06:28):
For sure.
Chantelle Bruinsma (06:28):
So there has to be choice for them to attend. That has to be appropriate. And again, as ever, you want to check your labor laws for wherever you are, do things by the book. And honestly, AI is so good at helping with that right now. You can really put your state or territory in and wherever you are and ask for some support in my state, what are the labor laws around this? So definitely do tick that box. Don’t just listen to me. But if it’s kind of a training at the studio or a local retreat, I always believe in paying for training because it’s in your benefit as a business owner that your team are trained. It rewards you and your company. So this is not something that we can just expect them to do out of the generosity of their heart for showing up on a Sunday afternoon to do a two or three hour training, right?
Michelle Hunter (07:19):
No way.
Chantelle Bruinsma (07:20):
That being said, you can have within their agreements, it doesn’t have to be their teaching rate, you can have an administrative rate. And again, the best place to check for this is for your award. In Australia and New South Wales, we’ve kind of got award rates for industries. And so that’s where you would check again what the training rate or admin rate is for that award. And that would be your minimum that you would be able to charge them by the hour for attending training. It doesn’t have to be their teaching rate, which is usually much higher. That’s very normal.
Michelle Hunter (07:49):
Absolutely. Yeah. And just be very… As Chantelle said in their contract, look, if you’ve got a lot of people who are on board and that hasn’t been written into their contract, you can draw up a schedule or a little addendum and make sure they’re really on board and on top of that before your trainings kick off. But again, should always be incorporated from the beginning. So there’s just not that ickiness of are we getting paid and the expectation of them showing up. They’re paid, they should be showing up for this as well because there’s nothing worse than scheduling the training and you don’t have the whole team buying in.
Chantelle Bruinsma (08:20):
Well, and let’s go there because let me tell you about what most trainings are about. They’re about, okay, so we’ve got a concert coming and we need to work out the lighting or we need to work out the costuming and it’s very itty bitty detail and that’s boring as batshit. So those meetings need to take place, but maybe do they? Can we just you work on it and then bring me what you’ve come up with and I’ll kind of critique it. There’s other ways to do it. If your team’s coming together, I have one rule for you to really follow and it’s this, it’s inspiration before information. Whenever we have the privilege of having your team come together, which is rare and precious and so, so very important, we want to be leading with big picture. What are we doing here? Where are we going?
(09:08):
Why does this matter? We always lead with those things. So for example, when I took the team to Hawaii, we actually went right back to basics and actually we looked at our mission. This is kind of relayed to us. We did a new value setting exercise to really again clarify our values.You’re giggling there. Do you remember that session, Michelle? Do you remember it really clearly? You giggling for the reason?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
I’m the opposite. I want to get to the detail.
Chantelle Bruinsma (09:32):
Oh my God.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
So Michelle – When we started big picture, I fell asleep.
Chantelle Bruinsma (09:38):
I can literally see my team and I standing. We had big giant post notes on the windows and I can see at the corner, Michelle is on the couch passed out. She was there. She was there.
Michelle Hunter (09:50):
Someone’s eye over my face. Look, and it is magic. I have seen you do this over and over again. Inspiration before information, but I just want to get to the information.
Chantelle Bruinsma (10:01):
The reason you and I are such a good team, honey, is that we are such opposites and we are such a good compliment. I’m here for this and then you got my back here and then we kind of bring it. It’s the best.
Michelle Hunter (10:13):
It’s the best. And I have to say though, when you do the inspiration, what you do really well is make it fun. It’s got to be fun. So that is really important and then something crazy. Chantelle will do something crazy or we’ll dress up, we’ll do some kind of activity. And then as we get into the work, we’ve still got whatever we had dropped over us at that time. It still carries through to when you have to do the implementation.
Chantelle Bruinsma (10:39):
Yeah. I think part of what we did, we did a values exercise and we end up kind of with a triangle, I think was the emblem. Remember the triangle? And this was kind of the three points of the triangle. And then I took everyone down to the beach and I said, “Okay, you guys need to do a sandcastle encapsulation of this kind of model. And we’ll put them into teams. Who’s going to come up with the best kind of variant of symbolic representation of the values that we just did?” So fun. So fun. It was so fun.
Michelle Hunter (11:05):
It was so fun.
Chantelle Bruinsma (11:06):
And then I think you guys went and bought us all necklaces, right? Or did I do that?
Michelle Hunter (11:10):
Yes. We went shooting and we bough those necklaces.go
Chantelle Bruinsma (11:14):
Necklaces.
Michelle Hunter (11:14):
Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. And then we wore those for years. It’s just –
Chantelle Bruinsma (11:18):
We wore them for years. They were beautiful. They were so beautiful. The triangle. And again, it’s those types of experiences. For me, what I’ve learned is no one wants to sit in a chair and listen. No one. The days of lecturing are gone. So when you’re designing a training or a retreat or any sort of kind of group experience like this, even your classes to be honest, we want to be really designing first and foremost from participation and creation. How are they physically engaging with the content? So this is where you want them up and drawing or creating or making things out of crafting activities or doing some sort of physical, tangible touch. So I would always be kind of bringing in some sort of activity to initiate because it relaxes everyone. It gives something people to do. They feel productive. They can talk and laugh about it.
(12:09):
It very much helps to bond everyone first and foremost. So that would be my primary thing to begin with a high level, where are we going? What are we doing? But can I bring this into an activity? Things like that are important.
Michelle Hunter (12:21):
If you are talking then to a studio owner who has… I say that work so well company-wide, all roles, what do you do to get the best out of high performers? So say you’ve got a team where it might be your office manager or your program directors. The people who really support a lot of the business that makes the studio owner’s life a lot easier and really helps carry visions further and further than you could even though possible, how do you get the best out of them and really get them on your vision? Because you got a bit of secret touch here.
Chantelle Bruinsma (13:03):
I don’t know. What do you think? You’ve been on the other side of it.
Michelle Hunter (13:07):
Well, I have. You do really well, this concept you always have starting high and I’m really interested in that because… No, because I’m all there for, what are we doing today? We’re going on a yacht. I’m like, okay, whatever. Michelle, we’re on the yacht. Stop drinking the Moscow mules. We still need to do the activity.
Chantelle Bruinsma (13:28):
Can we pause for a second? Can we pause for a second and talk about the shark story? Can we tell the shark story? Yeah.
Michelle Hunter (13:35):
Oh my goodness.
Chantelle Bruinsma (13:38):
We may have told this story before, but it’s a good one. So I’ll recap it. So we’re on a catamaran for a day in Hawaii and we’re all snorkeling. It’s gorgeous. It’s just magnificent. There’s coral and lots of fish. And I’m in there and my husband Travis is with me and Michelle. We’re all kind of snorkeling together like, oh, this is amazing.
Michelle Hunter (13:53):
But first, can I just interject? If you’ve never snorkeled before, I don’t understand the physics of this. It’s like sucking, blowing this. And then I just choked for the first 10 minutes and I was trying to pretend I wasn’t choking because everyone was expert snorkelers. And Trav and Chantelle swim like mermaids with these snorkels and they’re like… And I’m like… So let’s just paint the picture that when I’m next to them, we’re not all in the movie of Luca and our gills are just… It wasn’t… Yeah. But anyway, go back. It was still unbelievable. The water was crystal clear. Okay. So we swimming.
Chantelle Bruinsma (14:29):
I’m choking on my
Michelle Hunter (14:29):
Water.
Chantelle Bruinsma (14:29):
I see that. Yeah. It’s not an easy skill. I hear that. I hear that. I didn’t really know that at the time that you were struggling.
Michelle Hunter (14:36):
Just trying to get air.
Chantelle Bruinsma (14:39):
Okay. And so then I’m saying to Michelle, look over there. I’m pointing. I was like, I can’t talk over like… And then she’s like, “What? What?”
Michelle Hunter (14:54):
I was like, “What are you talking about?” Yes, there’s fish everywhere.
Chantelle Bruinsma (14:58):
It’s water. It’s water everywhere. I’m like, “No, look behind you. It’s a reef shark.”
Michelle Hunter (15:03):
And then she points down and then it’s like darn. It was a fricking shark right there.
Chantelle Bruinsma (15:11):
Okay. Pause, pause. It was a very small reef shark with gummy jaws.
Michelle Hunter (15:16):
Okay,
Chantelle Bruinsma (15:17):
Gummies. She didn’t know this.
Michelle Hunter (15:20):
When you’re growing up in Campbelltown and Southwestern Sydney, you don’t really know the distinction of gummy sharks and reef sharks. It’s just a fricking shark. And my nervous system was like, “I don’t care who any of you are. I’m aborting and I’m getting out of here.” Oh man, that was scary.
Chantelle Bruinsma (15:38):
I mean, she might not have been able to work the snorkel, but Michelle can swim. She activated the legs. That was gold.
Michelle Hunter (15:49):
I think actually just if I had to save you in that moment, if we made a pact
Chantelle Bruinsma (15:53):
That
Michelle Hunter (15:54):
We’re together,
Chantelle Bruinsma (15:54):
We
Michelle Hunter (15:54):
Die together. I flipped off my… I think even when I was swimming, I was like, “I’m abandoning. I’m throwing this. This is dead to me.” And then I think I was swimming and my flipper was half… I even ripped off my flippers. I ripped off my flippers and then kind of just threw them towards the… And the people in the boat were like, “What the hell’s wrong with this person?” And then I swam like I’ve never swam before, ran up that deck, stacked it on the deck on this wet… And I get up there and they were all just watching me. And I was like, “Shark.” And you and Travis, it’s in the same spot, just laughing.
Chantelle Bruinsma (16:26):
Such bitches, such bitch and smart.
Michelle Hunter (16:29):
So if you want to get the most out of your teams…
Chantelle Bruinsma (16:33):
But you need this shit, you need the shits and giggles. You need the memories, right? We’re still laughing about what?
Michelle Hunter (16:38):
Till today.
Chantelle Bruinsma (16:40):
Six years later.
Michelle Hunter (16:41):
Oh my gosh. It was really amazing. But there’s something key that you did there with a lot of team members when I talk about how do you get that extra bit out of them. One, you’re really vulnerable. We were really big at that time. And I think you also saw we all didn’t have to be good at everything. I think you saw that as well in us, in that week.
Chantelle Bruinsma (17:08):
Well, I mean, some of us are good at snorkeling and some aren’t. That was fairly established. But you’re right. But I mean, in a team there are such different strengths and your strengths are totally different than my strengths, but together we are magic. And I can’t do your brain and you can’t do my brain. And that’s what we love about each other, right? That’s what makes it work in your teams. You have people who have different strengths and skill sets, but you need to give them space to step towards it and to allow them space to be seen.
Michelle Hunter (17:39):
That’s it. And I think when you’re all together, they have this permission piece that they bond. They bonded and then because they were all together, they actually kind of respected more each other’s skill sets more instead of like, “Oh, well, she doesn’t like doing this and she doesn’t like doing that.” It’s like, “Oh my gosh, her superpower is this. Yeah, you lean into this and then I’ll do that.” I think that’s a really powerful thing when you have the space at a retreat to see unfold within a team.
Chantelle Bruinsma (18:04):
One of the things we did in that retreat in Hawaii, particularly I remember is we did a full planning process, which it’s so golden because it actually allows you to make decisions as a team. I think part of the power in this is we don’t have all the answers as the owners, right? We don’t. And the arrogance of coming in with a predetermined outcome is not going to work. It has to be a collaborative process. So even we started off like, what are the strengths of what we’re doing right now? And we had big jump posts like this is great, this is great, this is great, this is great, this is great, this is fantastic. Weaknesses, all the weaknesses, wobbly, wobbly, wobbly opportunities, like what we’re going to step towards, and then the threats, things for us to be aware of. And then we do the next part of the process is this idea of how do we given that?
(18:51):
How do we create more connection in the community given that I’m exhausted and I don’t have energy to sustain more community?
(19:05):
You write a list of 10 or 12 questions of how do we – That’s so powerful. Insert outcome or opportunity given that, and that’s the threat or the restriction that is kind of holding us back. So we’re identifying the roadblocks and what will happen is through just even those kind of the SWOT analysis and the how do we given that, you’ll start to actually get to the core crux of what is the issue in the business and that needs to be resolved. And there will be some themes and some trends. We’re in our swimmers and sarongs, right? This is what I also like. It’s like you’ve got to be relaxed. This can’t be pointy shoulder pads and stilettos, right? You got to be relaxed with them. You got to be in a space where you can just talk and there’s snacks.
Michelle Hunter (19:46):
And they’re not in a rush.
Chantelle Bruinsma (19:48):
So will someone sleep on the couch to be fixed?
Michelle Hunter (19:51):
Wake her up.
Chantelle Bruinsma (19:51):
It’s very relaxed. No, no, let her sleep. She’s fine. She’ll come in later. We’ll get the spreadsheet later. She’s fine. She’ll be good. And then the next part of the process is we start identifying annual priorities. Now what this process, in this particular retreat we did, we then made a list of the things we’d like to achieve in the next 12 months as a company, but it allowed us by doing the how do we given that, we had a really strong reference point of bandwidth and capacity and restrictions, financial restrictions, time restrictions, emotional. I was planning on getting pregnant again, things like that that we knew in the future were kind of coming.
Michelle Hunter (20:30):
Michelle wasn’t planning, but then still felt pregnant at the same time.
Chantelle Bruinsma (20:33):
Yep. Yeah, that was a highlight for us. We had babies 12 weeks apart. Never again. I mean, literally never again. We’re done.
Michelle Hunter (20:39):
Never. We’re done. Yeah, actually I can’t.
Chantelle Bruinsma (20:44):
No more babies. No more babies. But what I liked about this, we actually made some huge decisions as a team.
Michelle Hunter (20:49):
Massive. Yeah.
Chantelle Bruinsma (20:51):
And it’s the decision making as a team that actually feels like everyone goes away like, “Oh yes, we’re good.” We actually decided to retire a program at that retreat, a massive program because we were finding the calendar. We just couldn’t get the calendar to work. We just couldn’t. And we had to make a big decision of where we wanted to go as a company and what was important and where our genius zone was, and then what wasn’t worth it anymore.
Michelle Hunter (21:15):
And you know what was really wonderful? We were never a team that would make a 12-month priority list and then never speak about it again because the team were so invested, they kept on returning to those priorities. And at any point in time we got distracted because they had so much input and a sense of ownership and what their experience really went behind these priorities, they would keep us accountable and be like, “No, how does that fit in with the vision of that priority?” And they would say it back to us and how some studio owners might find business owners find that offensive. That was a win for us. It’s like, “Oh my gosh, that’s how invested they are and how strongly they held these values that they re-asked us that question, is this in line with what we’re trying to achieve in that 12-month priority?”
Chantelle Bruinsma (22:01):
I think part of it is when we are doing activities like that as a team, one thing that I’ve really enjoyed is give them the Sharpie. You sit down. For me to sit down and let them write it on the board, let them ask the questions. And what that does is it’s a gift to ourselves. A, we just get to rest for a bit, but also we can think. We actually can think. And then other people are facilitating, which means that they are then actively co-creating with you. So one of the best things is for you not to host all the time. One of the big things I see in trainings is that clients just say, “I just talk all the time,” and then they just sit there and no one’s engaging. It’s like, “Stop talking maybe. Here’s an idea. How about you ask them to run the process for you or with you?” One of the best things you can do when doing trainings is actually tell them advance, “I’d like you to prepare a five or 10 minute session on this or this or this.” And actually invite them, shift the whole thing from you facilitating to inviting them to have a voice in the moment.
(23:03):
Very important.
Michelle Hunter (23:04):
Yeah, that’s great. It’s so true. So important. And we’ve seen the magic and the fruit on the other side when this is done really well as a team together and you’re really bonded together and you sleep and eat.
Chantelle Bruinsma (23:17):
Yeah. And we’ve got clients who’ve taken their team internationally or who kind of get an Airbnb by the beach every year and those things are really special. But even if it’s like you get Thai takeaway on a Sunday night, it doesn’t have to be –
Michelle Hunter (23:33):
It doesn’t have to be
Chantelle Bruinsma (23:34):
This.
Michelle Hunter (23:35):
Big bang thing that’s this whole Instagramable thing. As I said, some of our best ones were going to a park, setting up a picnic blanket, had all their favorite snacks, but it was so quiet. All we could hear was the birds in the wind and we just said, “Look, block out this time. You are not allowed to leave before this time. We are going to be in this.” And that day was just as magical and served us just as many priorities that we achieved in a year as well.
Chantelle Bruinsma (24:00):
Yeah, it’s magic. Magic. Well, James, I hope you have a great time in Hawaii. Get some of those sweet Maui onion chips. They’re my favorite. They’re my tip.
Michelle Hunter (24:10):
They’re the best.
Chantelle Bruinsma (24:12):
Maui onion chips are live, actually. Yeah, we’re thinking of you. And if you’ve got a question that you would like us to answer, please do pop it into our Spotify chat or you can email us at chantelle@studioevolution.com and pop us your questions you’d like us to answer because these are super fun to answer. Thank you lovely ones. If you like this episode, please do subscribe to follow Your Studio Podcast and we’ll see you next time. Bye. Love what you’re hearing and want more? Make sure you subscribe so that you never miss an episode. And the good news is that we’ve pulled together a bundle of our most popular resources from marketing and retention to pricing and systems all in one place for you to binge. Inside, you’ll find videos, tools, and templates waiting for you. Everything you could need to start creating growth in your studio right now.
(25:02):
All you got to do is visit studioevolution.com/start and dive on in.
